Balancing- Nerfs/Buffs

K so Dante asked me to make a thread on how to balance the game. These are my thoughts

Uchiha
-REMOVE EMS PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD.
-Decrease Gaze stun from 2 seconds to 1.5
-Pf semi-homing(slight damage nerf)
-Fireball can be exploded by clicking hotslot again

Nara
-Increase damage on Gathering but make it slow instead of pull
-Increase cd's
-Slight damage nerf(Naras can basically ohko in one bind)

Wind
-Decrease Sandstorms slow intensity(The clan is full aoe for gods sake)
-Increase cds on Sickling and Sandstorm
-Change GSW back to old GSW
-Remove or drastically lower sicklings def debuff

Medic
-Poison fog blind and slow duration decreased to the same level as ephemeral
-Increase healing Wave cd to 20-25 secs
-Nerf damage on scalpels

Taijutsu Specialist
-Ok the arguement is that tai spec is a "skillshot" clan but that doesn't justify the fact that they deal such high damage
-Brute Penetration gives 15% defense penetration this is the same as itachi ring, Reduce to 5-10% at rank 3
-Iron Fist gives 25 ap at rank 5- no other clan (Uchiha, Snake ect) gives this much. (Uchiha only gives 10 at rank 5). reduce to 1
-Decisive punches and critical thrashes both lowered
-Strength Purolin steals 15% of opp's damage everytime you hit them. Lower to 5%
-Cripple reduces def by 30% and then factor in the defense penetration and damage stealing along with a critical hit. this is gonna add up to some srs damage, decrease defense debuff to 15%

Clay
-Remove stuns and limit slows to Spider and Bird
-Nerf Last Resort to 50% from 75% at rank 3(Int Builds can literally deal 2k+ damage with one C3)
-Decrease wind up time on C4
-Increase tracking speed of spider
-Remove handseal effect from Maiming Shock

Hyuuga
-Rapid Palms is the main issue with Hyuuga right now. The Ap scaling with speed should be lowered from 1 to 0.5
-Lion Palm cd in Rapid should be increaesd from 3 secs to 4/5
-Rotation cd should be increased from 11 seconds to 20-25
-Remove double stack from shockwave

Iron
-Toxic shock changed from Stun to slow
-Anti-Antidote reduced to 5% per rank rank from 10%
-Metal to Blood reduced to 125% at max rank from 250%
-Golden sand reduced to 30% from 40% dmg increase
-Unleash should be just a slow with no damage and slow intensity decreased
-Corruption should be increased to 20s from 10s at max rank

Copy
-Chakra rain should still break ice prison but add slow effect back
-Black Panther needs a dmg increase
-CLouds and Tornado fixed
-The blanks should be rearranged so that copies cannot get slow and stuns on almost every blank

Snake
-Nerf Poison Fang
-Nerf Experimental body
-Regen nerf

Yuki
-The water clone fix has solved a lot of the yuki problems
-True assassin changed from 30% at max rank to 20%
-Nerf Demonic Ice mirrors

Sand
-Lingering should not be able to be stacked on top of coffin or shower
-Increase speed of sand barrage

Snake passive increased from 1 regen per 8 ap to like 15-20 ap or just completely change it. BS anyways


Thanks to Satoshit, Yomi and Icy for helping me with tests and info. Oh and i know some of you fags are gonna be like WHERE IS KAG. So i will tell you that Dante said he has his own plans for kag so i didn't bother with it

Seems fair, I think Sand Barrage is fine, but seems fair

Spider
-Great War Bow shouldn't require handseals.

Here's some more opinions to add onto this, changing some things slightly. The only things I'm really going to comment on are mechanical changes. When the new defense stat comes into play a lot of these other things are going to change. Damage % isn't going to be as strong as it is now. Defense pen, however, will be good. It might be a good idea to lower Tai Specs defense pen right out of the gate when the new defense stats come out. 
 

Uchiha
- Make gaze a slow instead of a stun altogether
- I disagree with having fireball be a toggle. Shuriken/Kunai exploding kunai is more balanced than just pressing a button when ever to have a fireball explode

Nara
- Agree with the other nara changes...maybe not the gathering change. Naras have a slower moving shadow, without gathering they're just going to be shotgun shadowing which probably wouldn't be much fun to play

Wind
- Fix hurricane lowering CDs instead of raising them

Clay
- I agree with removing their stuns, seems pointless for them to have tbh
- I disagree with increasing the homing speed on spider, I think it should be changed into a straight line faster moving projectile or multiple projectiles instead of another homing jutsu in the game

Hyuuga
- Lion Palm cd in Rapid should be increaesd from 3 secs to 4/5 - Actually not sure why this is setting the cooldown. Is 3 seconds higher than near 50% cdr? With AP scaling their always going to have the lowest amount of tai CDR they can get as speed is the only stat that gives it and it now has scaling advantages for them. If it is lower with pure CDR, then yeah might as well increase it
- Rotation cd should be increased from 11 seconds to 20-25 - Think we should add in extra chakra consumption to rotation as well. Also should be stopping regen, not sure why it's not


Copy
-Black Panther needs a dmg increase - Definitely, I like how it had lower damage to start with for balancing reasons since it is a stun, however, the damage is really just too low.
-CLouds and Tornado fixed - Wanted to add onto this. Tornado seems to have a problem when you're fighting multiple people. It seems to be applying more than 1 tick of damage per tick instead of just the regular amount of damage. I haven't seen the damage go insane (not saying it doesn't, just what i've seen) in 1v1s. If that's the case it may be a bug adding damage per player to the damage applied to a single person. Cancer Clouds do the same thing, however, they last for barely any time so it's not as big of a deal.


Yuki
- Remove their defense pen or lower it substantialy.
- Lower the CDR scaling effect on 1K needles so the cooldown doesn't just taper off to no cooldown
- Cap the amount of poison stacks you can apply to a player. Ice Mirrors and Senbon spam will add insane amount of poison stacks.

Sand
- I think sands taijutsu needs looked at. They need to have some sort of limitation on attack speed or meleeing someone that's stuck in Sand Coffin. I know a few of you are going to hate this suggestion, however, something really needs done about it.
- Turn sand tsunami into a slow that they can bury in instead of a long stun (may need to decrease charge up time on it so it comes out a little bit faster)



Was just telling Dante yesterday to remove snake passive or change it to something else, 100% agree lol

There are no more poison stacks for yuki. Otherwise, I approve this message.

Edit: Change snake passive to regen on crits like their Regenerative Scales(?) Passive. Gogogo

Fuck EMS. Piercing gaze stun is bs. And fireball is fine the way it is.
(Also get rid of df bind and increase impact dmg a bit in return.)

Snake and Sand need a revamp imo.

ShadowV4 wrote:

Fuck EMS. Piercing gaze stun is bs. And fireball is fine the way it is.
(Also get rid of df bind and increase impact dmg a bit in return.)

Snake and Sand need a revamp imo.

df is fine ig maybe a damage reduction for 2 seconds would be better after the jutsu lands.

Dante says that if you want a clan revamped make a thread about with Jutsu and a Skill tree, whether it's NP/AP etc. With enough votes he will revamp the clan, but you have to be realistic with the post like how it will effect the game lag wise and balance wise, He will choose some ideas if it's good though and the thread don't have votes.

Gonna leave my opinion here.

Quote :

Uchiha
-REMOVE EMS PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD.
-Decrease Gaze stun from 2 seconds to 1.5
-Pf semi-homing(slight damage nerf)
-Fireball can be exploded by clicking hotslot again

-I'm neutral about EMS, but it does require a nice nerf.
-I'm fine with gaze being a stun as long the duration gets nerfed.
-Using a kunai to explode the fireball was problably quite fun, but i'm not sure about the toggle. (Even though  I never used uchihas, these interactions are usually cool to use)
Why not make fireball explode after a certain number of tiles? (So you can use the kunai for close enemies and the fireball for further ones?)  

Quote :

Nara
-Increase damage on Gathering but make it slow instead of pull
-Increase cd's
-Slight damage nerf(Naras can basically ohko in one bind)

-The nara cooldowns are really low, i agree with that part.
-Taking off the pull might be too much, may we opt to lower the after-pull stun instead?
-Agreed.

Quote :

Wind
-Decrease Sandstorms slow intensity(The clan is full aoe for gods sake)
-Increase cds on Sickling and Sandstorm
-Change GSW back to old GSW
-Remove or drastically lower sicklings def debuff

(LOL Kyle, i didn't know about that hurricane bug. Dayum)
-The slow is quite strong, why not a decreasing-over-time effect?
-Against the Sickling cooldown one. Neutral about the Sandstorm.
-Never really got to fight many winds in older versions. I don't remember how the old GSW was, can't help =\
-A debuff would be nice. (not because of the clan itself, but for the incoming defense system changes)

Quote :

Medic
-Poison fog blind and slow duration decreased to the same level as ephemeral
-Increase healing Wave cd to 20-25 secs
-Nerf damage on scalpels

- No idea about this one.
- Agreed.
- Small nerf?

Quote :

Taijutsu Specialist
-Ok the arguement is that tai spec is a "skillshot" clan but that doesn't justify the fact that they deal such high damage
-Brute Penetration gives 15% defense penetration this is the same as itachi ring, Reduce to 5-10% at rank 3
-Iron Fist gives 25 ap at rank 5- no other clan (Uchiha, Snake ect) gives this much. (Uchiha only gives 10 at rank 5). reduce to 1
-Decisive punches and critical thrashes both lowered
-Strength Purolin steals 15% of opp's damage everytime you hit them. Lower to 5%
-Cripple reduces def by 30% and then factor in the defense penetration and damage stealing along with a critical hit. this is gonna add up to some srs damage, decrease defense debuff to 15%

(The problem with their damage is that they have so much damage amplification added up through several diferent ways :T .  Removal of defense, Damage steal, High free AP, Defense PEN and Jutsu Crits)
-True, we can't nerf them too much though.
-10% is a nice one (?).
-Due to the fact that Raw AP usually counts for more than % damage, 15 at rank 5 seems fine. (Maybe 20. Depends on the Defense Pen + Defense Reduction nerf intensity)
- The actual crit chance seems fine.
-The Damage steal does need a nerf <_<
- I dunno... nerfing all of them at once might gut them.

Quote :

Clay
-Remove stuns and limit slows to Spider and Bird
-Nerf Last Resort to 50% from 75% at rank 3(Int Builds can literally deal 2k+ damage with one C3)
-Decrease wind up time on C4
-Increase tracking speed of spider
-Remove handseal effect from Maiming Shock

-> No useful nerf/buff information here. <-

Quote :

Hyuuga
-Rapid Palms is the main issue with Hyuuga right now. The Ap scaling with speed should be lowered from 1 to 0.5
-Lion Palm cd in Rapid should be increaesd from 3 secs to 4/5
-Rotation cd should be increased from 11 seconds to 20-25
-Remove double stack from shockwave

- Okay, I always said this: "To make Rapid Palms good again, we need the ap scaling back, but with a small nerf"
BUT WHY IS IT SO HIGH?! 0.5 or 0.6 would be the best option.
- 4 sounds okay.
- Sometimes rotation cd IS kinda Bullshit xD. (How about 18 seconds?)
- Is Rapid Palm THAT STRONG now? Never saw someone complaining about the double stack of shockwave O-o

Quote :

Iron
-Toxic shock changed from Stun to slow
-Anti-Antidote reduced to 5% per rank rank from 10%
-Metal to Blood reduced to 125% at max rank from 250%
-Golden sand reduced to 30% from 40% dmg increase
-Unleash should be just a slow with no damage and slow intensity decreased
-Corruption should be increased to 20s from 10s at max rank

- That change must be done.
- No idea what is Anti-Antidote.
- Metal to Blood as 125% looks harsh. 150% IMO.
- Sure.
- I can't agree with no damage, but a small nerf on the intensity sounds good.
- I forgot what is Corruption XD

Quote :

Copy
-Chakra rain should still break ice prison but add slow effect back
-Black Panther needs a dmg increase
-CLouds and Tornado fixed
-The blanks should be rearranged so that copies cannot get slow and stuns on almost every blank.

-I'm not sure if it's only me, but isn't the combo kinda hard to pull off? (Or it's only against the older players like Phresh, Yomi, Sato, Elp, Kamai, Jeff, etc?)
-Buff Black Panther 2016
-Fix Clouds and Tornado 2016
-To be honest, it's a great idea. (People still remember about the Hitman BS Lock-combo?)

Quote :

Snake
-Nerf Poison Fang
-Nerf Experimental body
-Regen nerf

-Not sure about any nerf to snake. Aren't they already getting a direct and indirect nerf? (Like the regen nerf and the defense split-up?)

Quote :

Yuki
-The water clone fix has solved a lot of the yuki problems
-True assassin changed from 30% at max rank to 20%
-Nerf Demonic Ice mirrors

-Great ideas. (Careful with the True assassin, as Kyle said that defense pen will be better than ever)

Quote :

Sand
-Lingering should not be able to be stacked on top of coffin or shower
-Increase speed of sand barrage

-Sand on top of sand, sounds pretty much like gaara xD (Not an actually useful comment)
-I dunno about that one... maybe just a faster start until the speed decreases to the actual?

Quote :

Snake passive increased from 1 regen per 8 ap to like 15-20 ap or just completely change it. BS anyways

1 regen per 10 or 12 ap?

Quote :

Thanks to Satoshit, Yomi and Icy for helping me with tests and info. Oh and i know some of you fags are gonna be like WHERE IS KAG. So i will tell you that Dante said he has his own plans for kag so i didn't bother with it

To be honest, i didn't give much thought about Kaguya. Any nerf might be good for the game balance. (Dante, i just hope you don't change the gameplay a little too much... KEEPTHEDASHES2016

Makenshi wrote:

Clay
-Remove stuns and limit slows to Spider and Bird
-Nerf Last Resort to 50% from 75% at rank 3(Int Builds can literally deal 2k+ damage with one C3)
-Decrease wind up time on C4
-Increase tracking speed of spider
-Remove handseal effect from Maiming Shock

Alright, I've played both Wind and Clay extensively, and let me tell you a few things.

I am the person who made the oneshot-clay build. I like to think that I play Clay fairly well.

The Last Resort build I have sacrifices a LOT. I have only 20 speed. I have no Stamina. This is a clan that regularly stands still for relatively long durations (C3, C4) and makes themselves summarily vulnerable. I can't count the number of times I've been oneshot by a Medic or taken a huge beating from a Hyuuga or Kaguya for using C3, not to mention all the invulnerabilities that can mitigate the damage output. You DO have a tiny window in which to react, and I have seen better players able to run out of the area before being blown up.

Clays also have EXTENSIVE cooldowns, longer than any other clan's on average (20 seconds with 35 handseals), with most of their damage being decidedly par for the course for your standard Nin clans. The crits that they do only do 20% bonus damage, too.

The handseal time extension on 'Maiming Shock' doesn't affect jack-shit unless you already can't instant cast something. Hell, I'd argue it should be buffed, or at least modified to add handseal time instead of making it x% slower (punishes people who just get minimum handseals required instead of those who get it for cooldown reduction).

Buffing Spider's tracking speed is stupid. Spider is a deterrent, not a nuke. Its slow speed plays to its advantage as a psychological game, and seems to tie the number of tiles it moves through with the timing of its detonation. How long it remains up is very important to its strength.

Honestly the only real change I can see that would be justified with Clay is to make it so Dragon doesn't detonate on contact with just about anything. I'd like to use the 'mines' portion of the skill more, but people physically running into any part of the dragon prematurely detonates it. I'd rather it only detonates when it strikes head-on, when manually detonated, or if detonated by a projectile (perhaps when intensity is recalculated or this skill is redone to the ride-around version this can receive some sort of intensity).

Makenshi wrote:

Wind
-Decrease Sandstorms slow intensity(The clan is full aoe for gods sake)
-Increase cds on Sickling and Sandstorm
-Change GSW back to old GSW
-Remove or drastically lower sicklings def debuff

Decreasing Sandstorm's slow intensity is something I can get behind. It's a very powerful slow and hitting someone with it is usually GG.
I disagree on increasing CDs on Sickling and Sandstorm. I think this mainly ties into a bug with Hurricane, where maxing Hurricane causes its cooldown to be LOWER than you would if you didn't have Hurricane on at all. Sickling needs to be spammable, it's Wind's bread and butter, and without it people would easily just rush them down.

Changing GSW back to old GSW is a terrible idea. I don't know if anyone remembered it, but old GSW caused an AOE sandstorm effect when you used it, which made it piss easy to finish someone off or even to wombo combo them. Current GSW requires more risky gameplay (the damage is increased the closer targets are to the center) and it can still proc Twister.

Sickling Wind's def debuff is difficult to stack as it is, as ALL the stacks fall off after, what, 5 seconds? 8 seconds? I don't remember. At any rate, it's very difficult to retain stacks on someone. If you're going to lower the power of it, increase the duration substantially to compensate, because keeping it on someone is a goddamn nightmare.

Makenshi wrote:

sorry i didn't know that buffing spiders speed will make it a nuke. Anyways, the buff on spider speed was 2 counteract the other nerfs such as no slows or stuns, if the spider is that slow with no slows or stuns i don't see you landing it often. Furthermore, i've been through this with other clays and thy have pretty much agreed. You are the only clay who seems to think clay is fine because you are stuck in lala land.

Most of the 'other clays' don't even main Clay (such as Inaba). They ran clay for a few days at level 104 and then dropped it for their mains. The majority of their experiences with Clay are by proxy... through me. These 'other clays' by and large do not exist.

Suspicious wrote:

Makenshi wrote:

sorry i didn't know that buffing spiders speed will make it a nuke. Anyways, the buff on spider speed was 2 counteract the other nerfs such as no slows or stuns, if the spider is that slow with no slows or stuns i don't see you landing it often. Furthermore, i've been through this with other clays and thy have pretty much agreed. You are the only clay who seems to think clay is fine because you are stuck in lala land.

Most of the 'other clays' don't even main Clay (such as Inaba). They ran clay for a few days at level 104 and then dropped it for their mains. The majority of their experiences with Clay are by proxy... through me. These 'other clays' by and large do not exist.

Not true. Yuu pretty much mains his clay now, Dp mained his clay albeit he doesn't play that much anymore. Also just because these other clays don't main it doesn't mean they don't know about the clan that they were using. Seems to me you just don't want the clan that you main nerfed.

[quote="KomuruZukitaki"][quote="Makenshi"]
Nara
-Increase damage on Gathering but make it slow instead of pull
-Increase cd's
-Slight damage nerf(Naras can basically ohko in one bind)

Now that I'm reading this clearly it's obvious people still do not understand my Nara situation. My Nara is built to be a GC/ Glass Cannon. I may kill you in likely 1-3 combos but think about it you can kill me in 1 combo no matter what. The lowest CD is of course imitation and thats like 5 seconds. But the CD starts after the shadow is broken. So in my opinion the only jutsu that needs a longer CD is Strangle and Endgame........ Please do not say Elp does One Combo Kills like I do please we are built entirely different.


nono, You are not understanding. You seem to think that your the only one who has built a high nin nara, but you are not. Also even if you don't build full nin naras are still doing some intense damage in one bind while having the sustain to keep them alive that alot of clans do not have. Take sand for example if they catch you they will dish out a lot of damage but they are not healing for ever sec that you are in the bind, furthermore there bind is much harder to land and lasts far and has much higher cd.

Taijutsu Specialist
-Ok the arguement is that tai spec is a "skillshot" clan but that doesn't justify the fact that they deal such high damage
-Brute Penetration gives 15% defense penetration this is the same as itachi ring, Reduce to 5-10% at rank 3
-Iron Fist gives 25 ap at rank 5- no other clan (Uchiha, Snake ect) gives this much. (Uchiha only gives 10 at rank 5). reduce to 1
-Decisive punches and critical thrashes both lowered
-Strength Purolin steals 15% of opp's damage everytime you hit them. Lower to 5%
-Cripple reduces def by 30% and then factor in the defense penetration and damage stealing along with a critical hit. this is gonna add up to some srs damage, decrease defense debuff to 15%

Here is something that must be kept in mind I agree to some of these nerfs like the defense penetration but let me guide you correctly on Taijutsu Specialist Damage %'s. In all It will not go past 150% Damage regardless of what the boosts promiss. I know this because I have a Taijutsu Specialist and I see it every time I fight. I steal "15%" and I'm at 150% then I use DLS which is suppose to add 50% damage but it isn't going past 150%. Reducing Tai Spec Critical Strike  passives doesn't really do anything too different tbh <.< cause i mean Dynamic ( the basic set up jutsu and lower CD) Does Critical Damage every time. Then theres Hidden Lotus which has a high crit strike chance every clan got that critical damage no matter what to be honest...... so reducing a passive like that wouldn't make any sense in my opinion.

Some passives do not show in the stats tab so just because it is not showing in stats tab does not mean it is there. Also lowering the critical damage will make a difference if you do have jutsus that do critical everytime. what kinda log ic is that. If the jutsu crits everytime then lowering the crit damage will lower the damage anyways, and that is the problem with tai specs.

KomuruZukitaki wrote:

Makenshi wrote:

KomuruZukitaki wrote:

Makenshi wrote:

Nara
-Increase damage on Gathering but make it slow instead of pull
-Increase cd's
-Slight damage nerf(Naras can basically ohko in one bind)

Now that I'm reading this clearly it's obvious people still do not understand my Nara situation. My Nara is built to be a GC/ Glass Cannon. I may kill you in likely 1-3 combos but think about it you can kill me in 1 combo no matter what. The lowest CD is of course imitation and thats like 5 seconds. But the CD starts after the shadow is broken. So in my opinion the only jutsu that needs a longer CD is Strangle and Endgame........ Please do not say Elp does One Combo Kills like I do please we are built entirely different.


nono, You are not understanding. You seem to think that your the only one who has built a high nin nara, but you are not. Also even if you don't build full nin naras are still doing some intense damage in one bind while having the sustain to keep them alive that alot of clans do not have. Take sand for example if they catch you they will dish out a lot of damage but they are not healing for ever sec that you are in the bind, furthermore there bind is much harder to land and lasts far and has much higher cd.

Only person close to my Nara build is Nimi and he barely touch his Nara other Nara's as I've seen doesn't do the damage like me.

Taijutsu Specialist
-Ok the arguement is that tai spec is a "skillshot" clan but that doesn't justify the fact that they deal such high damage
-Brute Penetration gives 15% defense penetration this is the same as itachi ring, Reduce to 5-10% at rank 3
-Iron Fist gives 25 ap at rank 5- no other clan (Uchiha, Snake ect) gives this much. (Uchiha only gives 10 at rank 5). reduce to 1
-Decisive punches and critical thrashes both lowered
-Strength Purolin steals 15% of opp's damage everytime you hit them. Lower to 5%
-Cripple reduces def by 30% and then factor in the defense penetration and damage stealing along with a critical hit. this is gonna add up to some srs damage, decrease defense debuff to 15%

Here is something that must be kept in mind I agree to some of these nerfs like the defense penetration but let me guide you correctly on Taijutsu Specialist Damage %'s. In all It will not go past 150% Damage regardless of what the boosts promiss. I know this because I have a Taijutsu Specialist and I see it every time I fight. I steal "15%" and I'm at 150% then I use DLS which is suppose to add 50% damage but it isn't going past 150%. Reducing Tai Spec Critical Strike  passives doesn't really do anything too different tbh <.< cause i mean Dynamic ( the basic set up jutsu and lower CD) Does Critical Damage every time. Then theres Hidden Lotus which has a high crit strike chance every clan got that critical damage no matter what to be honest...... so reducing a passive like that wouldn't make any sense in my opinion.

Some passives do not show in the stats tab so just because it is not showing in stats tab does not mean it is there. Also lowering the critical damage will make a difference if you do have jutsus that do critical everytime. what kinda log ic is that. If the jutsu crits everytime then lowering the crit damage will lower the damage anyways, and that is the problem with tai specs.

Lowering Critical Damage will lower damage, but Lowering Critical Rate won't Critical Damge is the extra % of damage you deal but Critical Rate is how often you pull critical hits. Investigate everything before you post and as for the stats that do not show I do not believe that I do the same damage with my moves if I dont use DLS, than when I actually use DLS. Only other person that can say other wise is Yomi I don't trust any other judgement.

Jeez thanks for the lesson in english like i didn't know that already. Anyways, lowering the critical rate will lower the ability to hit criticals correct or no? if the chance to crit is lower and the critical damage is lower then i believe that helps overall with the damage issue. so i think you should go investigate common sense b4 you post.

Secondly, just because no other naras are currently active doesn't mean you are the only one who has done this or do it. that doesn't mean the clan doesn't need nerfs.

Makenshi wrote:

KomuruZukitaki wrote:

Makenshi wrote:

KomuruZukitaki wrote:

Makenshi wrote:

Nara
-Increase damage on Gathering but make it slow instead of pull
-Increase cd's
-Slight damage nerf(Naras can basically ohko in one bind)

Now that I'm reading this clearly it's obvious people still do not understand my Nara situation. My Nara is built to be a GC/ Glass Cannon. I may kill you in likely 1-3 combos but think about it you can kill me in 1 combo no matter what. The lowest CD is of course imitation and thats like 5 seconds. But the CD starts after the shadow is broken. So in my opinion the only jutsu that needs a longer CD is Strangle and Endgame........ Please do not say Elp does One Combo Kills like I do please we are built entirely different.


nono, You are not understanding. You seem to think that your the only one who has built a high nin nara, but you are not. Also even if you don't build full nin naras are still doing some intense damage in one bind while having the sustain to keep them alive that alot of clans do not have. Take sand for example if they catch you they will dish out a lot of damage but they are not healing for ever sec that you are in the bind, furthermore there bind is much harder to land and lasts far and has much higher cd.

Only person close to my Nara build is Nimi and he barely touch his Nara other Nara's as I've seen doesn't do the damage like me.

Taijutsu Specialist
-Ok the arguement is that tai spec is a "skillshot" clan but that doesn't justify the fact that they deal such high damage
-Brute Penetration gives 15% defense penetration this is the same as itachi ring, Reduce to 5-10% at rank 3
-Iron Fist gives 25 ap at rank 5- no other clan (Uchiha, Snake ect) gives this much. (Uchiha only gives 10 at rank 5). reduce to 1
-Decisive punches and critical thrashes both lowered
-Strength Purolin steals 15% of opp's damage everytime you hit them. Lower to 5%
-Cripple reduces def by 30% and then factor in the defense penetration and damage stealing along with a critical hit. this is gonna add up to some srs damage, decrease defense debuff to 15%

Here is something that must be kept in mind I agree to some of these nerfs like the defense penetration but let me guide you correctly on Taijutsu Specialist Damage %'s. In all It will not go past 150% Damage regardless of what the boosts promiss. I know this because I have a Taijutsu Specialist and I see it every time I fight. I steal "15%" and I'm at 150% then I use DLS which is suppose to add 50% damage but it isn't going past 150%. Reducing Tai Spec Critical Strike  passives doesn't really do anything too different tbh <.< cause i mean Dynamic ( the basic set up jutsu and lower CD) Does Critical Damage every time. Then theres Hidden Lotus which has a high crit strike chance every clan got that critical damage no matter what to be honest...... so reducing a passive like that wouldn't make any sense in my opinion.

Some passives do not show in the stats tab so just because it is not showing in stats tab does not mean it is there. Also lowering the critical damage will make a difference if you do have jutsus that do critical everytime. what kinda log ic is that. If the jutsu crits everytime then lowering the crit damage will lower the damage anyways, and that is the problem with tai specs.

Lowering Critical Damage will lower damage, but Lowering Critical Rate won't Critical Damge is the extra % of damage you deal but Critical Rate is how often you pull critical hits. Investigate everything before you post and as for the stats that do not show I do not believe that I do the same damage with my moves if I dont use DLS, than when I actually use DLS. Only other person that can say other wise is Yomi I don't trust any other judgement.

Jeez thanks for the lesson in english like i didn't know that already. Anyways, lowering the critical rate will lower the ability to hit criticals correct or no? if the chance to crit is lower and the critical damage is lower then i believe that helps overall with the damage issue. so i think you should go investigate common sense b4 you post.

Secondly, just because no other naras are currently active doesn't mean you are the only one who has done this or do it. that doesn't mean the clan doesn't need nerfs.

Makenshi, may i ask for some feedback on the suggestions i made?

Why nerf tai spec crit damage and crit rate ? Is it something everyone agreed on or just you ask people around about it and dont just go on your personal interest. And as for Nara i suppose you're correct but im saying your nerf idea for gathering isn't that great imo and nara damage like i constantly tell you is because of a build and just a btw i believe i have 30 nin or less ill check later. I would say my build but i dont do that for everyone to read. Don't continue to think i dont know what im talking about either Base damage with one combo is likely no more then 15% HP ill actually test it later with my basic build for nin clans to see another nara damage and compare ill get the same skill tree passives too.

To put my two cents in,

I believe the reason Dante added so many stuns to the game is to make the game a bit more newbie friendly, so after a bit of consideration, I have to agree on making gathering a heavy slow. Sure, veteran players will still be able to capitalize heavily on a strong slow, but in the interest of keeping clans open to all players, I believe this is best. But I would suggest removing the pull or nerfing the range on the pull, maybe make it a maximum of 3 tiles, like Sand's Doom passive. Because slow or stun, if it pulls you to their face, there's no way not to punch the victim.

As for tai specs, as much as I like tai specs, in the interest of balance, I'd say it'd be better to nerf the damage from critical hits as opposed to their critical hit rate. The damage from tai spec crits are massive. This will solve a lot of problems(like whirlwind kick doing big damage when it's, in my opinion, a utility skill). Nerfing the crit rate overall, could work, but I think a lot of people forget about crit defense. Nerfing the crit rate would just make tai specs crit at an average or below average rate, and what good is all the damage if you're not critting? If you crit consistently, for less damage, then it still adds up over time.

Just my thoughts on what seems to be hot topics atm, feel free to agree or disagree.

Also, not that it matters, but dancing leaf shadow does increase damage. It's hard to notice in passing, but if a DLS tai spec and a non-DLS tai spec uses the same combo, the DLS tai spec will win out in DPS. Also, because of the nature of DLS, DLS tai specs have a greater range of combos to use which can grant them even MORE dps if used appropriately.

Yomi Snow wrote:

To put my two cents in,

I believe the reason Dante added so many stuns to the game is to make the game a bit more newbie friendly, so after a bit of consideration, I have to agree on making gathering a heavy slow. Sure, veteran players will still be able to capitalize heavily on a strong slow, but in the interest of keeping clans open to all players, I believe this is best. But I would suggest removing the pull or nerfing the range on the pull, maybe make it a maximum of 3 tiles, like Sand's Doom passive. Because slow or stun, if it pulls you to their face, there's no way not to punch the victim.

As for tai specs, as much as I like tai specs, in the interest of balance, I'd say it'd be better to nerf the damage from critical hits as opposed to their critical hit rate. The damage from tai spec crits are massive. This will solve a lot of problems(like whirlwind kick doing big damage when it's, in my opinion, a utility skill). Nerfing the crit rate overall, could work, but I think a lot of people forget about crit defense. Nerfing the crit rate would just make tai specs crit at an average or below average rate, and what good is all the damage if you're not critting? If you crit consistently, for less damage, then it still adds up over time.

Just my thoughts on what seems to be hot topics atm, feel free to agree or disagree.

Also, not that it matters, but dancing leaf shadow does increase damage. It's hard to notice in passing, but if a DLS tai spec and a non-DLS tai spec uses the same combo, the DLS tai spec will win out in DPS. Also, because of the nature of DLS, DLS tai specs have a greater range of combos to use which can grant them even MORE dps if used appropriately.

Thx for your addition also From what i saw in the past when i tested my combo on someone it somehow did little damage with dls idk how it happened must have been a quick error, but when i didnt use dls it killed him from 100% with hidden lotus though and you're not likely to land that after a jutsu unless the enemy is locked against the wall. Forgot all about crit defense my apologies but like I've said before i wouldn't mind a Tai Spec change that makes it require constant combinations to get damage in like a hyuuga aside from MC damage obviously standing out like a dislocated joint p.p. Also Hirudora doesn't follow up after DLS i saw it p.p idk what caused it but it was frustrating .

Actually, looking at it with a fresh head, you probably only did more damage because in addition to speed and strength, you also had taijutsu. And while the returns on taijutsu aren't great, you had a lot of it. So it may be that granting you more damage than the average tai spec and not dancing leaf shadow. Also, as I said, DLS opens up to more combos. There really wasn't enough tai specs to say for sure. But, still goes back to my point, the nature of DLS alone grants more damage because it's more open for combos. So it doesn't really need a whole 20% damage increase. At least not imo.

Yomi Snow wrote:

Actually, looking at it with a fresh head, you probably only did more damage because in addition to speed and strength, you also had taijutsu. And while the returns on taijutsu aren't great, you had a lot of it. So it may be that granting you more damage than the average tai spec and not dancing leaf shadow. Also, as I said, DLS opens up to more combos. There really wasn't enough tai specs to say for sure. But, still goes back to my point, the nature of DLS alone grants more damage because it's more open for combos. So it doesn't really need a whole 20% damage increase. At least not imo.

Agreed. Although i would prefer they didn't have that shit in the first place but yh.

Makenshi wrote:

Agreed. Although i would prefer they didn't have that shit in the first place but yh.

Welp up to Dante to remove it but we all know that isn't happening At least it doesnt't stun like Assassinate. Assassinate should be a copy jutsu under ice prison if anything <.< to prevent retarded Ice Prison combos with it although copy's rarely use it.